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China Sports Intl. - CALL FOR ACTION!

it's RMB .0065

melchamp      ( Date: 19-Apr-2011 16:53) Posted: I think they are declaring divi!! Not sure how much?? Anyones knows??

 

This kind of counters, don't expect much. Anyway, price so low, maybe can think that it will not go lower ? But than again, beware of reasons why it's so low. Previously I thought the same for ChinaHongxing and it managed to get suspended. Can be delisted afte a certain amount of time. BEWARE OF S-CHEATS.

melchamp      ( Date: 19-Apr-2011 16:53) Posted: I think they are declaring divi!! Not sure how much?? Anyones knows??

 

I think they are declaring divi!! Not sure how much?? Anyones knows??

 

Bingo! U had hit 1 of them right. Sino Techfibre the 4th time bomb! Wa, still got many on your list.

lsj840428      ( Date: 08-Apr-2011 20:51) Posted: to answer your question about who will be the next potential candidate to be suspended, i would suspect those listed below 1) sinopipe 2) sinotech fibre 3) sky china petrol 4) china kunda 5) china newtown 6) china xlx merely my own digging to share, dont take it for granted....do your own due diligence when reading forum from others warrenbegger      ( Date: 08-Apr-2011 20:05) Posted: Just this year 1Q already 3 S-chip kanna suspended, till now still dont know what really happen,  with some S-chip also into trouble soon. Hongxing and Hongwei fundamental look ok but kanna too. Gaoxian fundamental even better, super low PE, recent dual list and even give out some dividend before krx listing but also kanna suspended. We still dont know what really cause the suspension but i think many invest in them sure angry and cant sleep well with their hard earn money jam inside for nothing. Because many trust GX so much and even load when it fall below 0.2, load and load then all kanna burn. No chance to run, straight away halt for 3 day and suspended. And what about those S-chip scandal from 2006 till now, how many kanna burn till dont recognise their mother or wife. Base on %, S-chip is far more problem than local. S-chip every  15  around 1 got problem, local 100 around just 1, and local we still can find those management/company here. S-chip where u want to find? Fly there yourself ah? I didnt said all S-chip r rubbish, u can still invest in them but just dont whack too much as risk is really very high. Many S-chip is just like time bomb, u just dont know when it will explode, it just halt + suspend very long(if u need $ how, find ah long ah?). But so many S-chip scandal in history till now had badly burn many investor, but many still dare to play, as they like cause it their $. When they kanna, they just said why they so unlucky, why company like that, why? How to take back $? Can sue or not? Where that company and CEO?Where? I also got play S-chip but lucky didnt burn by any, and i dont whack a lots in them cause i know it risky. But if i play again, i just dont know when will kanna me? How  i know? No one know?  Who want to be the next S-cheat jackpot winner? Who next???

 

hit one of the given toto number......not sure the remaining will hit too.........

lsj840428      ( Date: 08-Apr-2011 20:51) Posted: to answer your question about who will be the next potential candidate to be suspended, i would suspect those listed below 1) sinopipe 2) sinotech fibre 3) sky china petrol 4) china kunda 5) china newtown 6) china xlx merely my own digging to share, dont take it for granted....do your own due diligence when reading forum from others warrenbegger      ( Date: 08-Apr-2011 20:05) Posted: Just this year 1Q already 3 S-chip kanna suspended, till now still dont know what really happen,  with some S-chip also into trouble soon. Hongxing and Hongwei fundamental look ok but kanna too. Gaoxian fundamental even better, super low PE, recent dual list and even give out some dividend before krx listing but also kanna suspended. We still dont know what really cause the suspension but i think many invest in them sure angry and cant sleep well with their hard earn money jam inside for nothing. Because many trust GX so much and even load when it fall below 0.2, load and load then all kanna burn. No chance to run, straight away halt for 3 day and suspended. And what about those S-chip scandal from 2006 till now, how many kanna burn till dont recognise their mother or wife. Base on %, S-chip is far more problem than local. S-chip every  15  around 1 got problem, local 100 around just 1, and local we still can find those management/company here. S-chip where u want to find? Fly there yourself ah? I didnt said all S-chip r rubbish, u can still invest in them but just dont whack too much as risk is really very high. Many S-chip is just like time bomb, u just dont know when it will explode, it just halt + suspend very long(if u need $ how, find ah long ah?). But so many S-chip scandal in history till now had badly burn many investor, but many still dare to play, as they like cause it their $. When they kanna, they just said why they so unlucky, why company like that, why? How to take back $? Can sue or not? Where that company and CEO?Where? I also got play S-chip but lucky didnt burn by any, and i dont whack a lots in them cause i know it risky. But if i play again, i just dont know when will kanna me? How  i know? No one know?  Who want to be the next S-cheat jackpot winner? Who next???

 

The CEO only owns 30%. That is confirmed. Old friend of father (the founder) to CEO used to own a further 20%, but he cashed out a while back. Good timing, la. Remainnig shareholder base is fragmented. Most Sing-retail investors...

 

Since Mar2009 till now.
China Sports  has reached 0.240 record high  on 12-Jan-2010.
& now  px close @ 0.080. 

BBs run rd liao... 

('',)

Sell when rebounce...
Unless China Sports has gd gd news...

Bon3260      ( Date: 07-Apr-2011 22:13) Posted: Sell when rebounce... ('',)

 

unless you confirm that the ceo does not own more than half of the outstanding shares, then we still hav a chance, otherwise, we are just doing something worth nothing......

truth be told, one of my fren owned Finaone as well, considered as one of the 30 stakeholder. lately, finaone announced to delist n make an exit offer well below the initial IPO.....then guess wat.....one fren tried to gather more allies but ended up with those 'so called' allies is only louder in talking but not acting.....so eventually lan lan also cant do anything but to sell at open market.......

Metallicus      ( Date: 08-Apr-2011 23:43) Posted: You are right alexchia01. I might well be...

 

cash should be there. but why bother, lots of efforts for nothing, right? guess if we can group, we stand a chance. yield realistic as you say? how play our cards?

seems a bit far fetched to me. But always ready to join, if things are as you say they are - little effort, big reward, guess...

Tell me,,, 

 

You are right alexchia01. I might well be...

 

You are too naive.

 

Metallicus      ( Date: 08-Apr-2011 23:16) Posted: No, the CEO is not a finance guy...he has no relation to return on equity nor return on capital employed. But, given that the majority of the shareholder base is located right here, in Singapore, my key point is that we, the minority shareholders, have the opportunity to educate him. He owns 30%, we own the rest. Should he be the Chairman be calling all the shots. I think not. Again, if we organize, we can change all this and in the process make him understand the importance of good corporate governance. And the best of it all, it is not that difficult.

 

Not exactly a Warren Buffet fundamental investor attitude there...lol

My question is, why not bother. The powers of the CEO have its limits. The Board consists of 5 directors, of which 3 are independent. All from Singapore with a reputation to be very carefully considered and protected at all costs. Majority shareholder base in Singapore. Passing a resolution is not rocket science. Replacing the Board is not rocket science. Extraordinary dividend payments...yeah, not rocket science. If 100% dividend yield paid out in 3 months is not a good enough incentive for you, I would like to see your PA.

 

Why border with such things.

If I'm the CEO, I'm not going to listen to someone on how to run my company.

If you coming to visit my company, I'll only show you the good stuffs.

If you ask me how's my company doing? I'll say everything is great.

If I'm going to cheat you, I'm not going to tell you to your face.

There are others who said they know ChinaGaoxian well. Also kana wack left, right, center.

To me... all companies are bad, unless proven they can perform.

My advice to you... Forget about non-performing stocks and focus on the performing ones.

lsj840428      ( Date: 08-Apr-2011 22:51) Posted: if you knw so well about the company and the committee who run the company, do u see any likelihood to educate the superb conservative ceo regarding the true value of money ? does he knw how can he uses money to generate money? if the profit earned by the company is less than 0.5% of the total cash piled up, which is even lesser than the interest rate, does he knws that the value of the money is eaten up?  Metallicus      ( Date: 08-Apr-2011 22:04) Posted: Hi warrenbegger. You are right about the cash (well above CNY 900mill), but the company only has CNY 44 mill in debt (only part of which is interest-bearing). If you are referring to AP, it is also prudent to look at AR which is staggering CNY 277 mill, well above its AP. The company is profitable and will likely (imo) continue to do so (given longer term OEM contracts with e.g. Zara where margins are OK) and it is generating cash (albeit working capital has come up). Why does the company have SGD 0,18 per share in cash and trading at 0,085? Why is it not paying out dividends?   1. Investor fear that the cash is, in fact, not there (given S-chips scandals during the past 2 years. Many mentioned below, but also dont forget Oriental Century... 2. Investor fear that the company will spend the cash on projects generating negative/low return on capital employed, hence the " true" value of the cash is less than its current value Why not pay out a significant portion in dividends? 1. Mr. Lin (son of founder of the company - current CEO and Chairman) is ultra conservative. He does a respectful job running the company (and is quite devoted, living with his father and brother in a house at the factory), but has unfortunately very little financial insight whatsoever. 2. Mr. Lin looks at his cash balance in an " absolute relative" way. He compares the absolute level of cash to that of his larger competitors (e.g. Li Ning, Anta, Dongxiang, Xtep, 361 Degrees, China Eratat, China Hongxing to name a few). Obviously, the cash balance is small, especially when compared to the " big boys." 3. That the cash will simply lose its value given that it earns less than 0,5% interest on it (significantly below China's inflation)  In my opinion, there is no rational reason (from an investors perspective) for the company to hold such a large amount of cash. It rocks by the cornerstones of good corporate governance. Happy to provide further color to the company and its operations. I know the company well.

 

No, the CEO is not a finance guy...he has no relation to return on equity nor return on capital employed. But, given that the majority of the shareholder base is located right here, in Singapore, my key point is that we, the minority shareholders, have the opportunity to educate him. He owns 30%, we own the rest. Should he be the Chairman be calling all the shots. I think not.

Again, if we organize, we can change all this and in the process make him understand the importance of good corporate governance. And the best of it all, it is not that difficult.

 

if you knw so well about the company and the committee who run the company, do u see any likelihood to educate the superb conservative ceo regarding the true value of money ? does he knw how can he uses money to generate money? if the profit earned by the company is less than 0.5% of the total cash piled up, which is even lesser than the interest rate, does he knws that the value of the money is eaten up? 

Metallicus      ( Date: 08-Apr-2011 22:04) Posted: Hi warrenbegger. You are right about the cash (well above CNY 900mill), but the company only has CNY 44 mill in debt (only part of which is interest-bearing). If you are referring to AP, it is also prudent to look at AR which is staggering CNY 277 mill, well above its AP. The company is profitable and will likely (imo) continue to do so (given longer term OEM contracts with e.g. Zara where margins are OK) and it is generating cash (albeit working capital has come up). Why does the company have SGD 0,18 per share in cash and trading at 0,085? Why is it not paying out dividends?   1. Investor fear that the cash is, in fact, not there (given S-chips scandals during the past 2 years. Many mentioned below, but also dont forget Oriental Century... 2. Investor fear that the company will spend the cash on projects generating negative/low return on capital employed, hence the " true" value of the cash is less than its current value Why not pay out a significant portion in dividends? 1. Mr. Lin (son of founder of the company - current CEO and Chairman) is ultra conservative. He does a respectful job running the company (and is quite devoted, living with his father and brother in a house at the factory), but has unfortunately very little financial insight whatsoever. 2. Mr. Lin looks at his cash balance in an " absolute relative" way. He compares the absolute level of cash to that of his larger competitors (e.g. Li Ning, Anta, Dongxiang, Xtep, 361 Degrees, China Eratat, China Hongxing to name a few). Obviously, the cash balance is small, especially when compared to the " big boys." 3. That the cash will simply lose its value given that it earns less than 0,5% interest on it (significantly below China's inflation)  In my opinion, there is no rational reason (from an investors perspective) for the company to hold such a large amount of cash. It rocks by the cornerstones of good corporate governance. Happy to provide further color to the company and its operations. I know the company well.

 

Hi Jackpot2010. With regards to China Hongxing, the mgmt team si quite messed up (imo). The cash balance is there, but the auditors are having trouble reconciling their accounts receivables. Again, this is just my humble opinion. Do note that auditors have recently become ultra conservative due to the many scandals.

With regards to China Sports...as stated by many here today, this is a risky company. Small and volatile, bad corporate governance, bad financial guidance by mgmt in the past, small player surrounded by many big fish, it is not an M& A candidate (as the large players would rather grow organically and see no need for CSPORT's Yeli brand and specialty stores).

But short-term, the upside in CSPORT is high, even without a shareholder revolt. Again, it is not going bankrupt anytime soon (which it is priced to do...) - again Iimo, generates profits and cash flows.

It's a buy, but definately only place a small portion of your PA on it. If you at all believe in an organized shareholder revolt, I would increase my stake significantly in the short term.

But again, thats just my opinion...Good luck! 

 

Hi Metallicus,

U know the co well? Will u advise investing now - considering  its NAV of ~23c and net cash ~18c vs. px of mere 8.5c. I m not vested but the nos. look too good to be true. I think it was dragged down by negative sentiment of China Hongx and other s-chips. But CS is only about 1/4 the size f China Hongx (in terms of mkt cap).

 

Hi warrenbegger. You are right about the cash (well above CNY 900mill), but the company only has CNY 44 mill in debt (only part of which is interest-bearing). If you are referring to AP, it is also prudent to look at AR which is staggering CNY 277 mill, well above its AP.

The company is profitable and will likely (imo) continue to do so (given longer term OEM contracts with e.g. Zara where margins are OK) and it is generating cash (albeit working capital has come up).

Why does the company have SGD 0,18 per share in cash and trading at 0,085? Why is it not paying out dividends?

  1. Investor fear that the cash is, in fact, not there (given S-chips scandals during the past 2 years. Many mentioned below, but also dont forget Oriental Century...

2. Investor fear that the company will spend the cash on projects generating negative/low return on capital employed, hence the " true" value of the cash is less than its current value

Why not pay out a significant portion in dividends?

1. Mr. Lin (son of founder of the company - current CEO and Chairman) is ultra conservative. He does a respectful job running the company (and is quite devoted, living with his father and brother in a house at the factory), but has unfortunately very little financial insight whatsoever.

2. Mr. Lin looks at his cash balance in an " absolute relative" way. He compares the absolute level of cash to that of his larger competitors (e.g. Li Ning, Anta, Dongxiang, Xtep, 361 Degrees, China Eratat, China Hongxing to name a few). Obviously, the cash balance is small, especially when compared to the " big boys."

3. That the cash will simply lose its value given that it earns less than 0,5% interest on it (significantly below China's inflation) 

In my opinion, there is no rational reason (from an investors perspective) for the company to hold such a large amount of cash. It rocks by the cornerstones of good corporate governance.

Happy to provide further color to the company and its operations. I know the company well.

 

http://info.sgx.com/webcoranncatth.nsf/VwAttachments/Att_CF34E8B31DEFC5204825784600563703/$file/CSI_4Q_2010_Announcement.pdf?openelement

Why financial result so blur one? The company fundamental look very good leh, so much current asset(1.2B) with cash 900m+. Total Debt only 270m+ 

And why share px only 0.085? What the company doing? The cash inside bank or not?

If they dont intend to expand the company or increase it fundamental value, they should give out more dividend to reward  shareholder? Why keep so much cash and dont reward out??? They want to wait for share px to reach 0.010 and then act blur ah?

 

Metallicus      ( Date: 08-Apr-2011 20:43) Posted: Gentleman. To be clear. The annual general meeting in China Sports has the last 3 years been held on April 28/28/27th. The company will issue the agenda to the AGM on April 11th (if consistent with the past). The temperature was high during last years AGM, but unorganized. That was the problem. For the ones of you who are not familiar with our rights, I refer you to the Bermuda Companies Act of 1981:  http://www.bermudalaws.bm/Laws/Consolidated%20Laws/Companies%20Act%201981.pdf This law is intact, barring the company's bye-laws. This is not hard. 1. we have to organize. 2. we have to get a hold of the second largest shareholder (Orkla - quite the large company according to my bloomberg, which should be inclined to promote such activities by e.g. hiring a lawyer and paying for advertisement costs ++, 3. we table a resolution at the AGM. 4. The vote is passed by simple majority. 5. We get paid SGD 0.10.  4. The company continues operating as if nothing has happpened. Simple, easy and with limited downside.

 

Thanks, at least u advise others to dig deeper:)

lsj840428      ( Date: 08-Apr-2011 20:51) Posted: to answer your question about who will be the next potential candidate to be suspended, i would suspect those listed below 1) sinopipe 2) sinotech fibre 3) sky china petrol 4) china kunda 5) china newtown 6) china xlx merely my own digging to share, dont take it for granted....do your own due diligence when reading forum from others warrenbegger      ( Date: 08-Apr-2011 20:05) Posted: Just this year 1Q already 3 S-chip kanna suspended, till now still dont know what really happen,  with some S-chip also into trouble soon. Hongxing and Hongwei fundamental look ok but kanna too. Gaoxian fundamental even better, super low PE, recent dual list and even give out some dividend before krx listing but also kanna suspended. We still dont know what really cause the suspension but i think many invest in them sure angry and cant sleep well with their hard earn money jam inside for nothing. Because many trust GX so much and even load when it fall below 0.2, load and load then all kanna burn. No chance to run, straight away halt for 3 day and suspended. And what about those S-chip scandal from 2006 till now, how many kanna burn till dont recognise their mother or wife. Base on %, S-chip is far more problem than local. S-chip every  15  around 1 got problem, local 100 around just 1, and local we still can find those management/company here. S-chip where u want to find? Fly there yourself ah? I didnt said all S-chip r rubbish, u can still invest in them but just dont whack too much as risk is really very high. Many S-chip is just like time bomb, u just dont know when it will explode, it just halt + suspend very long(if u need $ how, find ah long ah?). But so many S-chip scandal in history till now had badly burn many investor, but many still dare to play, as they like cause it their $. When they kanna, they just said why they so unlucky, why company like that, why? How to take back $? Can sue or not? Where that company and CEO?Where? I also got play S-chip but lucky didnt burn by any, and i dont whack a lots in them cause i know it risky. But if i play again, i just dont know when will kanna me? How  i know? No one know?  Who want to be the next S-cheat jackpot winner? Who next???