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yummygd
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04-Apr-2010 16:46     
 
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 Alert Admin 		im not intending to do it i am asking for educational purposes.

Livermore      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 14:54) Posted:

Although leverage is a useful tool, don't be afraid by these scary talk. It is not rocket science. The day my previous broker changed my account to a margin account some years back, he did not even teach me how to do it. I just did it

iPunter      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 13:56) Posted:

If you are 'not savvy' as you said, why on earth are playing with fire by shorting (or longing for that matter)?

You should seek to educate yourself first.

You can start educating yourself by setting aside an amount of money which you can definitely afford to lose., say $10,000?

Then you can long or short to your heart's content, until you lose the $10,000. I assure you you will, it's only a matter of time.

But I would like you to trade smartly by brushing up on chart reading and risk management before you commit even a dollar.

Once you have lost a certain amount of money, you are then rich with stock market experience. But learning is endless, especially when it comes to mastering yourself 9as opposed to mastering the market). Smiley
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Livermore
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04-Apr-2010 16:20     
 
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This is from your website

A Buying Power Example
Let's say that you deposit $10,000 in your margin account. Because you put up 50% of the purchase price, this means you have $20,000 worth of buying power. Then, if you buy $5,000 worth of stock, you still have $15,000 in buying power remaining. You have enough cash to cover this transaction and haven't tapped into your margin. You start borrowing the money only when you buy securities worth more than $10,000.

 



iPunter      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 15:21) Posted:



Reference Article: "What Is A Margin Account?"

 
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iPunter
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04-Apr-2010 15:53     
 
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That's exactly what I understood it to be...

A margin/CFD account is a margined/CFD account...

Whether you like it or not, you are being financed for any positions you take...


But Livermore's strategy of not overtrading  is an excellent one, which I also advocate... Smiley
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novicealex
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04-Apr-2010 15:41     
 
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Just a point to note, in a CFD / Margin account, if you have $20K in that account and you use it to purchase $10K worth of stocks, you will charge with the interest.  In the CFD if your stock allow up to 5 times leverage, then your $10K worth of stock will assume $2k from your cash and $8K from the brokerage firm.  Thus please note that you will be paying interest even you have sufficient cash to cover all your newly purchase.  Unless you are talking about transferring your holdings from your CDP.

For more information, please check with your respectively brokers to avoid any misunderstandings.



Livermore      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 15:12) Posted:

If you put in $20k in your margin account and you buy $20k worth of stocks, you are not borrowing any money so interest does not kick in. In margin, I always use the 2/3 rule. Don't buy up to full leverage and use 1/3 as buffer

iPunter      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 15:03) Posted:

This is true of a cash trading account...

But as long as one trades in a CDF or margined account, and has not specified that is is not on margin trading, it is margined trading, thus, leveraged.

In this instance mentioned by you, if one buys 20 lots of a $1.00 stock, one is fully leveraged if it is a margin or CFD account. And one is immediately subject to a margin call or otherwise forced liquidation upon the price moving even one click.

But maybe we are talking about different concepts... hehehe... Smiley
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iPunter
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04-Apr-2010 15:21     
 
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Reference Article: "What Is A Margin Account?"

 
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iPunter
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04-Apr-2010 15:14     
 
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I think what you mean is if one only trades 1/5 of one's margin/CFD account balance, one is not leveraging.

In this regard, you are right. Then one only have to use $4000 for the trade (with $16,000 margin deposit balance unused/margined).

Then I agree this is a wise way of trading too, since the outlay is only $4000, which is still leveraged, by the way... Smiley

 
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Livermore
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04-Apr-2010 15:12     
 
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 Alert Admin 		If you put in $20k in your margin account and you buy $20k worth of stocks, you are not borrowing any money so interest does not kick in. In margin, I always use the 2/3 rule. Don't buy up to full leverage and use 1/3 as buffer

iPunter      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 15:03) Posted:

This is true of a cash trading account...

But as long as one trades in a CDF or margined account, and has not specified that is is not on margin trading, it is margined trading, thus, leveraged.

In this instance mentioned by you, if one buys 20 lots of a $1.00 stock, one is fully leveraged if it is a margin or CFD account. And one is immediately subject to a margin call or otherwise forced liquidation upon the price moving even one click.

But maybe we are talking about different concepts... hehehe... Smiley



Livermore      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 14:51) Posted:

If you have $20k in your account and you buy 20 lots of a $1 stock, that is $20k. There is no leverage.
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iPunter
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04-Apr-2010 15:03     
 
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This is true of a cash trading account...

But as long as one trades in a CDF or margined account, and has not specified that is is not on margin trading, it is margined trading, thus, leveraged.

In this instance mentioned by you, if one buys 20 lots of a $1.00 stock, one is fully leveraged if it is a margin or CFD account. And one is immediately subject to a margin call or otherwise forced liquidation upon the price moving even one click.

But maybe we are talking about different concepts... hehehe... Smiley



Livermore      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 14:51) Posted:

If you have $20k in your account and you buy 20 lots of a $1 stock, that is $20k. There is no leverage.

iPunter      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 14:33) Posted:

If you have a CFD or margin account, if you trade the $20,000 fully...

You are actually trading $100,000 worth of stock, assuming a 20% margin.

How then can this not be leverage?... Smiley

 

 
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Livermore
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04-Apr-2010 14:54     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Although leverage is a useful tool, don't be afraid by these scary talk. It is not rocket science. The day my previous broker changed my account to a margin account some years back, he did not even teach me how to do it. I just did it

iPunter      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 13:56) Posted:

If you are 'not savvy' as you said, why on earth are playing with fire by shorting (or longing for that matter)?

You should seek to educate yourself first.

You can start educating yourself by setting aside an amount of money which you can definitely afford to lose., say $10,000?

Then you can long or short to your heart's content, until you lose the $10,000. I assure you you will, it's only a matter of time.

But I would like you to trade smartly by brushing up on chart reading and risk management before you commit even a dollar.

Once you have lost a certain amount of money, you are then rich with stock market experience. But learning is endless, especially when it comes to mastering yourself 9as opposed to mastering the market). Smiley



yummygd      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 13:11) Posted:



ipunter can enlighten me naked short is illegal is it n if naked short(I know must cover back same day) are there any penatly or only if one dun cover back?? i know best is open a cfd or margin but not savvy enough for it yet.
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Livermore
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04-Apr-2010 14:51     
 
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 Alert Admin 		If you have $20k in your account and you buy 20 lots of a $1 stock, that is $20k. There is no leverage.

iPunter      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 14:33) Posted:

If you have a CFD or margin account, if you trade the $20,000 fully...

You are actually trading $100,000 worth of stock, assuming a 20% margin.

How then can this not be leverage?... Smiley

 

 




Livermore      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 14:27) Posted:

For CFD or margin account, it is ok if you don't leverage. It is just an account. If you have $20k in your account, you just trade within $20k and there is no borrowing. Forget about naked short or contra. Why do that just to earn some "coffee" money? Current market condition is not yet for short sellers.
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iPunter
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04-Apr-2010 14:40     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Sunday Special Treat (click)
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iPunter
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04-Apr-2010 14:33     
 
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If you have a CFD or margin account, if you trade the $20,000 fully...

You are actually trading $100,000 worth of stock, assuming a 20% margin.

How then can this not be leverage?... Smiley

 

 




Livermore      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 14:27) Posted:

For CFD or margin account, it is ok if you don't leverage. It is just an account. If you have $20k in your account, you just trade within $20k and there is no borrowing. Forget about naked short or contra. Why do that just to earn some "coffee" money? Current market condition is not yet for short sellers.

yummygd      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 13:11) Posted:



ipunter can enlighten me naked short is illegal is it n if naked short(I know must cover back same day) are there any penatly or only if one dun cover back?? i know best is open a cfd or margin but not savvy enough for it yet.
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iPunter
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04-Apr-2010 14:29     
 
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Even worse than "play play" is "pray, pray"...

In other words, it is worse to take no positive action, but to hope and pray for the best to happen... 

Miracles do happen, but only to the deserving... hehehe... Smiley



WLBO_BB      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 14:03) Posted:

Dun play play...   :)
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Livermore
Master
04-Apr-2010 14:27     
 
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 Alert Admin 		For CFD or margin account, it is ok if you don't leverage. It is just an account. If you have $20k in your account, you just trade within $20k and there is no borrowing. Forget about naked short or contra. Why do that just to earn some "coffee" money? Current market condition is not yet for short sellers.

yummygd      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 13:11) Posted:



ipunter can enlighten me naked short is illegal is it n if naked short(I know must cover back same day) are there any penatly or only if one dun cover back?? i know best is open a cfd or margin but not savvy enough for it yet.
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WLBO_BB
Master
04-Apr-2010 14:03     
 
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Yells: "Warren Look Before Others _ Buffett Best "
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 Alert Admin 		Dun play play...   :)
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WLBO_BB
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04-Apr-2010 14:01     
 
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1) What if I short sell a counter and did not cover my position on the day itself?

If you do not have the required shares in your account on the due date (the third market day following the trade day), CDP will buy-in shares on the market to satisfy the delivery obligation.

Buying-in starts the day after the due date, and will start at two minimum bids above the closing price of the previous day, the current last done price or the current bid, whichever is the highest.

You will pay the difference between this selling price and the buy-in price, including brokerage and other costs.

 

2) Are there any penalties on short-selling?

Yes. As of 25 September 2008 onwards, there will be a penalty for performing short-selling trade. In addition to the processing fee for buying-in at $30 per contract, there will also be a penalty of 5% of the value of the failed trade subject to a minimum of $1,000.
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iPunter
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04-Apr-2010 13:56     
 
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If you are 'not savvy' as you said, why on earth are playing with fire by shorting (or longing for that matter)?

You should seek to educate yourself first.

You can start educating yourself by setting aside an amount of money which you can definitely afford to lose., say $10,000?

Then you can long or short to your heart's content, until you lose the $10,000. I assure you you will, it's only a matter of time.

But I would like you to trade smartly by brushing up on chart reading and risk management before you commit even a dollar.

Once you have lost a certain amount of money, you are then rich with stock market experience. But learning is endless, especially when it comes to mastering yourself 9as opposed to mastering the market). Smiley



yummygd      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 13:11) Posted:



ipunter can enlighten me naked short is illegal is it n if naked short(I know must cover back same day) are there any penatly or only if one dun cover back?? i know best is open a cfd or margin but not savvy enough for it yet.
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yummygd
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04-Apr-2010 13:11     
 
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ipunter can enlighten me naked short is illegal is it n if naked short(I know must cover back same day) are there any penatly or only if one dun cover back?? i know best is open a cfd or margin but not savvy enough for it yet.
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iPunter
Supreme
04-Apr-2010 12:41     
 
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Your thoughts are simply too simplistic...

And you are thinking there is only one big boy in the game?

Simplistic... simply simplistic... hehehe... Smiley




Bon3260      ( Date: 03-Apr-2010 21:13) Posted:

Investmt Compaines hv made so many times & effords 2 push those Counters' prices so high. Do u think they allow u 2 sell shorts? Use ur brain & think 1st b4 u do any actions...
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iPunter
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04-Apr-2010 12:38     
 
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Hahaha...

Thank you.

Think of me being in Dallas, Texas and you'll feel I've had enough sleep. Smiley



sarsar      ( Date: 04-Apr-2010 06:22) Posted:



either young or old...u still need to rest well....u seems don't need to sleep...

take care
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